Should These Guys be Hall of Famers?

After the hall of fame announced it's two newest members this afternoon, it got Scott and I thinking about players that we watched growing up. We never saw Jim Rice play, so neither of us can really comment on whether he deserved the hall call today. Rickey Henderson on the other hand we did get to see play, and can appreciate his greatness. (And, if you missed it today, the MLB Network was airing old Henderson playoff games today. So you also could have seen him there. Kudos to them.) Either way, Scott and I devised a list of eight players who played their best years in the '90s. Are they hall of famers? Here's our takes, tell us what YOU think! And, if there's someone you think we left off this list (we picked only players that are borderline and are already retired) tell us!

Barry Larkin

Jordan: The 4th overall pick in the 1985 draft lived up to his billing, by having a very steady and productive career. The Reds shortstop played all of his 19 seasons in Cincinnati, where he hit .295 and hit 198 home runs from a low-yield offensive position. His 2,340 lifetime hits are also an excellent total, but 3,000 would have been an automatic ticket to Cooperstown, and he comes up well short. Larkin was an excellent defensive player and a good hitter throughout his career. He also won a World Series in 1990 and hit .353 in 17 at bats. He was elected to 12 all-star games, but did not play in three of them, and was only selected in 2004 as a charity to his final season. His .338 post season average is good, but I'm not convinced he's hall of fame caliber. He was a really good player, but never outstanding.

Jordan's call: OUT

Scott: Barry Larkin, as is the case with all of these guys, is real close. Larkin's a great guy, wonderful teammate (or so I've been told, I never played for the Reds), and a hell of a shortstop. However, that's about where I draw the line. Larkin's peak was around the same time as Cal Ripken's, while Cal was busy redefining the position, Barry was extremely effective at keeping it going. Only twice did he top 20 homers or 75 RBIs in a 19 season career. That's not to take a thing away from the new MLB Network star, but, Hall of Famer, not so much.

Scott's Call: OUT

Roberto Alomar

Jordan: Roberto Alomar leads all potential hall of famers in one category, spitting on umpires. That won't get him his hall call, but what might is his .300 lifetime batting average or his 2724 career hits. Like Larkin, Alomar has longevity, as he played 17 seasons. His 210 lifetime home runs are a pretty high total too, considering he played most of his career as a second baseman. And he was an outstanding fielder, winning 10 gold gloves. (By comparison, the veterans committee elected former Red Sox 2-bagger Joe Gordon, who hit 246 lifetime dingers.) Alomar played in and won two world series with the Blue Jays in 1992 and 1993, and the 12 time all-star appeared in every all-star game in the 1990s. He also was a great base stealer in his career, amassing 474 life time steals. Based on a steady and excellent career and as a great all around player at 2nd base, I'd say he's in.

Jordan's call: IN.

Scott: Is Robbie Alomar a d-bag? Likely. But, if the Hall of Fame had a character quotient, Ty Cobb would have never made it. Mickey Mantle might not have either. Now, Pete Rose and Mark McGwire and Barry Bonds aren't great character guys, but, they also cheated. Robbie never did, least not as far as we know. While I certainly wouldn't want to umpire one of his games, I'd want him up in a big spot, no doubt. Alomar could pick it at second (10 gold gloves), he could drive in runs (six years with over 75 RBIs), and he could hit the ball for average (career average of .300). His numbers on the whole don't jump out at you (unless you include those years in Cleveland in the late 90's where basically everyone and their mother was driving in 120 or so runs....steroids, anyone?). However, position is the key here. What he did, at second base, both as a base stealer and fielder in the traditional sense of the position, and as a run producer in the newer definition of the position make him a Hall of Famer. He was a guy that you feared when he came up to bat, and I'm not so sure I can say that for many second basemen of his era.

Scott's Call: IN

Craig Biggio

Jordan: Biggio is a lock, whether we think he is or isn't qualified. His 3,060 hits will get him in regardless of any other accomplishments in his career. However, beyond that incredible hit total, he is qualified regardless. Other than Rickey Henderson, Biggio was the most feared leadoff man in the league during the same time period. Over his 20 year career, he was an all-star at an amazing four different positions (C, 2B, CF, LF), and he was a good defensive player anywhere on the diamond, even though he won all four of his gold gloves at second base. His career batting average was a solid .281, and when you consider he led the National League in plate appearances five times, a .281 clip is pretty darn good to say the least. He'll get in, and he'll deserve it.

Jordan's Call: IN

Scott: I'm going against conventional logic, and say, no. Craig Biggio was a very good, sometimes great, sometimes not so great, diversified major leaguer. A Hall of Famer, not quite. I you look at it with an honest eye, when was he ever a great player? Point at the year, please. Still searching? He had some good years, but nothing where you'd say, wow, this guy's a sure fire Hall of Famer. In fact, I'm of the belief that he only gets consideration (and an eventual nod) because of his 3000 hits. Which, by the way, is BS, because anyone that saw him at the end of his career knows he was just hanging on to get to that plateau. Biggio only had 200 hits once, he only hit .300 three times and over .310 once. To me, he's exactly the kind of guy that needs to be kept out of the Hall, because he should serve as proof of two things. First, having reached a milestone alone isn't enough for blind induction. Second, players shouldn't be rewarded for hanging on to reach those milestones. They shouldn't be penalized either, but, had Alomar wanted to stay with a team and consistently hit near .250 for three more years, he'd have easily made it 3000. Great player, seemingly great guy. Not really Hall of Fame great though.

Scott's Call: OUT

Jeff Bagwell

Jordan: If it wasn't for chronic elbow problems that shortened his career likely three more seasons, Jeff Bagwell would be a member of the 500 home run club, a stat that virtually locks you up for the hall call, unless of course you got there 'roided up. In Bags' 15-year career with Houston, the first baseman crushed 449 career home runs, and knocked in 1529 runs. His .297 batting average is excellent for a power hitter and his .408 lifetime on base percentage shows his propensity for reaching base. He hit 40+ home runs 3 times in his career and 30+ 9 times. He drove in more than 100 runs 8 times and more than 120 runs a whopping five times. He was the 1994 NL MVP and was named Rookie of the Year in 1991. He was in the top 3 in MVP voting 3 times, yet incredibly was only a 4-time all-star. His post season career wasn't too great either, as he hit just .226 in 9 post season games. But for me, he was always one of the best players in the National League and one of the most feared hitters in the league throughout his career. For me, he's in.

Jordan's call: IN

Scott: If only for the fact that he played his entire career looking like he was in an immense amount of pain at the plate (he either had a love for park benches or badly had to go to the bathroom 4 times a game), he should be a Hall of Famer. Honesty time. Bagwell was a beast, be fair. For a number of years (again, largely those late 90's years when it seems as if everyone was on steroids, but hey, ignorance is bliss, no?), he tore up the league. Unlike his fellow Killer Bee Biggio, Bagwell didn't hang around the league for numbers. His career averages in 15 productive years, even as a cleanup hitter are better, far as OBP and BA are concerned. He hit nearly 500 HRs, but, more importantly, he was a force in the National League for at least eight or nine years. Is it a bit bothersome that he absolutely wilted in the playoffs year after year (2 HRs and a batting average under .230)? Sure, but Bagwell was the that rare power hitter that not only could slug the ball 400 feet but also hit over .350. Top 10 in MVP voting in his career six times, Baggie's a HOFer

Scott's Call: IN

Andres Galarraga

Jordan: Other than the fact that he had a fantastic nickname, "El Gato Grande" or for those of you who don't habla espanol, "The Big Cat", Galarraga played in 19 seasons spanning three decades, and at the end battled back from a bout with cancer to keep playing. Galarraga mashed 399 career home runs over his long career with eight different teams, but was most feared when he hit the rocky mountain air of the old Mile High Stadium with the Blake Street Bombers. Galarraga's most outstanding stretch was between 1996-1998, when he put up 40+ home runs all three years, and drove in more than 120 runs in each of those years. In fact, get a load of his 1996 stat line: .3o4 batting average, 47 HR, 150 RBI, .357 OBP. Those are the ungodly statistics that made him a monster in Ken Griffey Baseball. But Galarraga, while he did have great stretches, and is a five time all-star, didn't sustain that supreme greatness throughout his career. He was a steady, solid power hitter for a long time, but didn't put together a long enough stretch where you considered him the best at his position for a long time.

Jordan's Call: OUT

Scott: The Big Cat's a nice story, especially after coming back from cancer twice. He's got that big ol' smile and the big fella could even pick it first a bit, that's for sure. His numbers, from being a homer shy of 400 to a career batting average of .288 range from good to great, nothing less. But, it does seem odd, to me at least, that he never really became a dominant offensive player until he went to Colorado, where even Dante Bichette was hitting the snot out of the ball. In his first season in the high altitude his average jumped from .243 to .370. Really? Could he have made his transformation any more blatant? And, really, he only had a handful of great years. Three, four, maybe (maybe) five years as a top flight hitter. Not enough. Lo siento, gato grande.

Scott's Call: OUT

Pat Hentgen

Jordan: For me, this is an absolute no-brainer. There is no way you could possibly convince me this guy ever sniffs the hall of fame unless he tours it on a trip with his family. He had a pedestrian 131 wins in 14 years in the Big leagues with Toronto, St. Louis, and Baltimore, and has a lifetime ERA of 4.32. Granted, the guy did pitch in the peak of the steroid era, but 4.32 doesn't cut in any era for me. He won the Cy Young award in 1996, putting together a 20-10 campaign with a 3.22 ERA, but even that, his best season, isn't all that spectacular. HE did win two world series with the 1992-1993 Blue Jays, but has a career 9.24 earny in the post-season. Not only that, he didn't even pitch in the 1992 fall classic, so that doesn't even count on his pitching record. He had his moments, as a three time all-star, but if this guy were to ever get in, and Bert Blyleven doesn't, then the hall will prove to be a farce.

Jordan's Call: OUT

Scott: Some how, when Jordan and I were going through guys to pick for this list, I suggest Pat Hentgen. What I was on at this moment in time, I have no idea. Probably that same stuff that Jordan takes before picking games on the weekends. Either way, he's not a Hall of Famer. And, I'll always hate him for stealing a Cy Young from Andy Pettitte in 1996. Pettitte had a better record, similar ERA, and pitched on a better team. Real fair.

Scott's Call: OUT

Edgar Martinez

Jordan: Here's where we get into the classic debate of whether designated hitters deserve the hall call. For me, when you only play in half the game, you must put up absolutely insane statistics to get consideration. Edgar Martinez was a really good hitter, as he hit .312 for his career, but was just not a tremendously feared hitter in his career. He is a seven time all-star, and won four silver slugger awards as a DH. Martinez also led the majors in on-base percentage three times. But he only hit 309 home runs batting in the middle of a potent Mariners line-up in the 1990s, and only eclipsed the 30 home run plateau once (and in 2000, when the league was juiced). Edgar Drove in 100 runs six times, he was a steady hitter for a long time, but is a guy who was a solid hitter and played no D. No Cooperstown for you, Mr. Martinez.

Jordan's Call: OUT

Scott: Originally, my thought here was, maybe. At least, not NO. Sure, he didn't bring a glove to the Kingdome for the last decade plus of his career. I've heard the idea that if Paul Molitor could make it as a DH, than Edgar should too. Here's the problem with that logic. Molitor had over 3300 hits. Edgar, in only 3 less seasons, had about a thousand fewer. His batting average was incredible, year in and year out for a guy that was a power hitter. Consistently in the high .320's, he was a monster in the middle of those devastating Mariner offenses. But, was he as good as Molitor? Decidedly not. And, when you don't ever play the field, don't play for a winning team, and haven't reached any obvious milestones, you've got to be a ridiculous offensive players. I'm talking 45 bombs, 135 RBIs and a .320 BA consistently. He'd usually have one of those down, but not all. And, thus, he's not a Hall of Famer. Should've looked into a glove Edgar...

Scott's Call: OUT

Fred McGriff

Jordan: Scott mentioned how Robby Alomar wasn't a good guy. Add the Crime Dog to the list of guys who won't get into the hall based on character. When the Cubs acquired him in 2001 for the stretch run, he said he didn't want to come to the team, which, surprisingly was in the pennant race at the time, because he liked his home in Tampa. The then-Devil Rays were in last place at the time. Despite the fact that ol' Crimey wasn't a huge fan of winning, he was undoubtedly a great hitter through the 90s, and won the world sries with Atlanta in 1995. McGriff was named to five all-star teams and was in the top 10 in the MVP voting six times, even though he never won. Problem is though, as much as 'Griff tried to eclipse that 500 home run plateau late in his career, even when it meant signing a 1 year deal with Tampa Bay just to try and hit the nine he needed to get there, he hit just two in 27 games and hung it up soon after. So his 493 career big flies keep him seven away from that mark. He was also just ten hits shy of 2,500 for his career. So, like his numbers, I'd say he's just short of a HOF bid.

Jordan's Call: OUT

Scott: If there's a better example of numbers not being all you should judge a player on, that milestones shouldn't guarantee enshrinement, I'd like to meet him. Fred McGriff in his day, could do a few things well. He could fight crime. He could peddle defensive drills videos. And he could turn on an inside pitch. That last one there is what probably netted him 493 homers, one shy of that majestic 500 (maybe not so much any more where it seems like guys like Adam Dunn are a good year away from it nowadays). Now, he likely won't get in, because his numbers are clearly a result of dragging his own career out. And so, I ask you, if he had stayed around for another year, hit that wondrous 500th homer, would he be a shoe-in? Probably, but, he's living proof that numbers don't make the man. Crime Dog's another example, like Biggio, of a guy that was a top flight player and guy, but, isn't great. He isn't Hall of Fame great. Did you fear McGriff, outside of Tom Emanski commercials? If there was a Hall of Fame, silver edition, he'd get my vote. But, putting him along side other sluggers like Mantle, Ruth, and Clemente and such just doesn't seem right.

Scott's Call: OUT

Larry Walker

Jordan: If only Larry Walker and the boys had stayed together, the Expos would have won a world series in the early 1990s. But that's for another discussion. Walker to me is a guy who is as borderline as it gets. In 17 seasons he had a stellar .313 career batting average, but that is likely inflated due to his 9+ seasons in Colorado. His career on-base percentage (.400) is also excellent. But for a guy that spent nearly a decade in Colorado, he didn't have that great of power, considering he hit just 383 lifetime dingers. He's a five time all-star, which is good, but in 100 career post season at-bats he hit just .230. Many who played with Walker lauded his ability to hit the baseball, but realy his numbers aren't quite hall-worthy for me. I'm not always so hell-bent on numbers, but if the guy hit 4oo home runs or more he might have a better shot.

Jordan's Call: OUT

Scott: This one's an interesting one, if only because he'll be the first true Colorado test. You could argue that the Big Cat could be the first, but Walker's a clear Rocky product. He didn't get his first 100 RBI season til Colorado. Didn't hit over 25 homers, until Colorado. His numbers, in Colorado, were out of this world, highlighted by a three year stretch where he casually hit over .360 each year. That all said, while he was a great hitter in his career and even kind of fun to watch in the field (that deke he'd try on fly balls he couldn't see was classic), his numbers, on the whole aren't so great. Take a quick look with me. In 17 years, only 5 years of 100+ RBIs, and only 4 with at least 30 homers. Those numbers surprised me. Ultimately though, it'll come down to how seriously people take Coors Field. If Jim Rice had a hell of a time getting into the Hall because people say his numbers are a product of Fenway Park, I can't imagine what they'll say about Walker. I say, nay.

Scott's Call: OUT